The end of the line

[Tuomo Valkonen]

It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore. Cygwin is a big pile of
shit [1], with an even bigger pile of filth for a project manager;
It has no hope. A typical FOSS project, that is. I will be trying
to complete my Windows transition, and reduce my Cygwin dependency,
hopefully to nil. This will mean that I can not use Ion anymore;
I do not personally have the time for a Windows port.

[1]: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin/110341

PS. I will need a decent Windows text editor to even attempt
moving out of Cygwin. Any suggestions? I need set-mark
type selection (I don't like shift selection); configurable
key bindings, with support for key sequences (^K B, etc.);
LaTeX syntax highlighting, maybe Lua, etc.

[Kris Malfettone]

Vim works fine without cygwin on windows and I am sure emacs or its various derivitives have cygwin-less windows ports as well.

------Original Message------
From: Tuomo Valkonen
Sender: ion-general-***@lists.berlios.de
To: ion-***@lists.berlios.de
Subject: The end of the line
Sent: Sep 1, 2009 8:03 AM

It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore. Cygwin is a big pile of
shit [1], with an even bigger pile of filth for a project manager;
It has no hope. A typical FOSS project, that is. I will be trying
to complete my Windows transition, and reduce my Cygwin dependency,
hopefully to nil. This will mean that I can not use Ion anymore;
I do not personally have the time for a Windows port.

[1]: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin/110341

PS. I will need a decent Windows text editor to even attempt
moving out of Cygwin. Any suggestions? I need set-mark
type selection (I don't like shift selection); configurable
key bindings, with support for key sequences (^K B, etc.);
LaTeX syntax highlighting, maybe Lua, etc.

--
Stop Gnomes and other pests! Purchase Windows today!
http://ik

[Tuomo Valkonen]

Post by Kris Malfettone
Vim works fine without cygwin on windows and I am sure emacs or its
various derivitives have cygwin-less windows ports as well.

I never liked emacs. Joe-bindings are half emacs, half wordstar,
but I just can't stand emacs' own bindings, beyond the basic
de facto standard unix movement bindings. Years ago, I tried
to start usin emacs, but just couldn't. Too crippled. It's like
an OS missing the editor. ^X combos are awful hand-twisters,
and it seems ^X is hard-coded (at least in GNU emacs) in many
places, so can't be remapped to something more useful (in joe:
forward word). Another annoyance was, well, Escape Meta Alt
Control Shift, how you needed one binding for search forward,
another for search backward, third for replace forward, and
so on, these not even including a case-sensitivity toggle.
In joe, otoh, the single search function just queries the
options. There were various other annoyances, like the syntax
highlighter not having the concept of numbers, etc.
So I doubt I'll be going for emacs, if I can find something
else. Joe would be the best, but it doesn't run natively on
Windows. And, since not running in a terminal, something
not contstrained by the text terminal would be nice, for
displaying automatic folds, etc.

Vi, well, it's from such a different world that I don't
dislike it like emacs, but never really “got it” either.

[Kris Malfettone]

A few friends swear by slick edit, but I have no experience with it.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tuomo Valkonen <***@iki.fi>

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:02:45
To: <ion-***@lists.berlios.de>
Subject: Re: The end of the line

Post by Kris Malfettone
Vim works fine without cygwin on windows and I am sure emacs or its
various derivitives have cygwin-less windows ports as well.

I never liked emacs. Joe-bindings are half emacs, half wordstar,
but I just can't stand emacs' own bindings, beyond the basic
de facto standard unix movement bindings. Years ago, I tried
to start usin emacs, but just couldn't. Too crippled. It's like
an OS missing the editor. ^X combos are awful hand-twisters,
and it seems ^X is hard-coded (at least in GNU emacs) in many
places, so can't be remapped to something more useful (in joe:
forward word). Another annoyance was, well, Escape Meta Alt
Control Shift, how you needed one binding for search forward,
another for search backward, third for replace forward, and
so on, these not even including a case-sensitivity toggle.
In joe, otoh, the single search function just queries the
options. There were various other annoyances, like the syntax
highlighter not having the concept of numbers, etc.
So I doubt I'll be going for emacs, if I can find something
else. Joe would be the best, but it doesn't run natively on
Windows. And, since not running in a terminal, something
not contstrained by the text terminal would be nice, for
displaying automatic folds, etc.

Vi, well, it's from such a different world that I don't
dislike it like ema

[Jeff Mickey]

Post by Kris Malfettone
A few friends swear by slick edit, but I have no experience with it.

Yes, guys at my who use windows at my place of work seem to swear by
slickedit. It has a great code browser/semantic search.

// jeff

[Tuomo Valkonen]

Post by Jeff Mickey

Post by Kris Malfettone
A few friends swear by slick edit, but I have no experience with it.

Yes, guys at my who use windows at my place of work seem to swear by
slickedit. It has a great code browser/semantic search.

Didn't stay long on my system... too complicated procedures to
register for an evaluation license.

[Javier Rojas]

Post by Tuomo Valkonen

Post by Kris Malfettone
Vim works fine without cygwin on windows and I am sure emacs or its
various derivitives have cygwin-less windows ports as well.

Vi, well, it's from such a different world that I don't
dislike it like emacs, but never really “got it” either.

Hell, no, not vi. Vim. You get syntax highlighting, folding, a decent scripting
system (vim 7+), code navigation (ctags), a whole load of great plugins
available and a *sane* interface to move through text. Regarding latex,
latex-vim is a really good environment to edit/compile latex files, complete
labels, quotes, etc.

--
Javier Rojas

[M Jared Finder]

Post by Tuomo Valkonen
It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore. Cygwin is a big pile of
shit [1], with an even bigger pile of filth for a project manager;
It has no hope. A typical FOSS project, that is. I will be trying
to complete my Windows transition, and reduce my Cygwin dependency,
hopefully to nil. This will mean that I can not use Ion anymore;
I do not personally have the time for a Windows port.
[1]: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin/110341
PS. I will need a decent Windows text editor to even attempt
moving out of Cygwin. Any suggestions? I need set-mark
type selection (I don't like shift selection); configurable
key bindings, with support for key sequences (^K B, etc.);
LaTeX syntax highlighting, maybe Lua, etc.

Emacs is available for Windows natively
(http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/), so is VIM
(ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/pc/).

It's a shame that you are not going to be working on Ion anymore.
Windows also needs a decent window manager; it's default one is also
horrible.

-- MJF

[Paul Johnson]

Post by Tuomo Valkonen
It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore.

Thanks very much for Ion. I've been using it for years and, the way
things look at the moment, I may well be using it for years to come.

[Henri Salo]

Post by Paul Johnson

Post by Tuomo Valkonen
It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore.

Thanks very much for Ion. I've been using it for years and, the way
things look at the moment, I may well be using it for years to come.
--
http://www.pjcj.net

I'm definately going to continue using it in the future.

---
Henri Salo

[jerome jackson]

Post by Henri Salo
Henri Salo

Yes, I'm sorry if this is a little off-topic, but I too would like to say
thank you for such a great piece of software. It's a shame it's ended on
a sour note with the X devs and such, just a shame really. I wish you
all the best of luck in your future work, whatever it may be!

yours, with best regards,
Jerome Jackson.

[Olof Johansson]

Post by Paul Johnson

Post by Tuomo Valkonen
It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore.

Thanks very much for Ion. I've been using it for years and, the way
things look at the moment, I may well be using it for years to come.

Seconded. Thanks for a great wm!

[Jens Jahnke]

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:38:33 +0200
Paul Johnson <paul-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

PJ> Thanks very much for Ion. I've been using it for years and, the way
PJ> things look at the moment, I may well be using it for years to come.

I'll second that. Ion was a real life changer for me.

[Canaan Hadley-Voth]

Post by Jens Jahnke
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:38:33 +0200
PJ> Thanks very much for Ion. I've been using it for years and, the way
PJ> things look at the moment, I may well be using it for years to come.
I'll second that. Ion was a real life changer for me.

Me too. The tiling, the convenient queries, the lua, the statusbar, the fullscreen-anything (all at once), etc etc. I don't know if Tuomo gets any warm fuzzy feelings from outpourings of gratitude or not, but hopefully he's proud of all he's done for the *nix users that do like efficiency and control of their interface.

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery

[Tuomo Valkonen]

Me too. The tiling=2C the convenient queries=2C the lua=2C the statusbar=
=2C the fullscreen-anything (all at once)=2C etc etc. I don't know if Tuom=
o gets any warm fuzzy feelings from outpourings of gratitude or not=2C but =
hopefully he's proud of all he's done for the *nix users that do like effic=
iency and control of their interface.

It's been all for nothing. Wasted time, wasted life.

[Tuomo Valkonen]

Post by Tuomo Valkonen
It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore. Cygwin is a big pile of
shit [1], with an even bigger pile of filth

Yesterday I was angry, today I'm miserable. I'm too much
alone with my thoughts; my anger and misery.

I'm feeling somewhat regretful for such angry words; no
I don't particularly like the guy and his strict discipline,
but I do not want to be a bitter old man hating and hated
by everybody, so I'll start by saying sorry here.

[Ivan Vilata i Balaguer]

Post by Tuomo Valkonen

Post by Tuomo Valkonen
It has come to this. Unless miracles happen, I don't think I will
be using or working on Ion much anymore. Cygwin is a big pile of
shit [1], with an even bigger pile of filth

Yesterday I was angry, today I'm miserable. I'm too much
alone with my thoughts; my anger and misery.
I'm feeling somewhat regretful for such angry words; no
I don't particularly like the guy and his strict discipline,
but I do not want to be a bitter old man hating and hated
by everybody, so I'll start by saying sorry here.

That's always a wise and humble reaction, and saying it publicly is also very
brave on your part. I guess most of us sometimes get the feeling that the
world is against us, but you know, every person is a whole world in itself and
getting to understand others' positions or limitations tends to get difficult
and frustrating. But that's just the human nature!

Anyway, rest assured that many people shares your opinions and greatly values
your work, especially for its boldness, insightfulness and tecnhical quality.
Congratulations and thanks for that, I've been and I'll be using Ion for a very
long time! :)

::

Ivan Vilata i Balaguer @ Intellectual property is the worst offense @
http://www.selidor.net/ @ against human intelligence. @

[Timandahaf]

Post by Ivan Vilata i Balaguer
Anyway, rest assured that many people shares your opinions and greatly values
your work, especially for its boldness, insightfulness and tecnhical quality.
Congratulations and thanks for that, I've been and I'll be using Ion for a very
long time! :)

Well said. One thing I'd like to add is, Tuomo, thanks for the fantastic
support you've always provided for Ion. It's been dependably quick,
helpful, and insightful, and has made me confidently switch all my
computing environments to use ion.